One of my favorite movies in the pre-UFC days, when your brain didn’t scream, “THAT’S SO UNREALISTIC” at you every three seconds when one guy was fighting off like 10 bad guys with his bare hands, was Steven Seagal’s Marked for Death:
The parable of the sun and wind is a great lesson. Competing to get the man to remove his coat, the wind attempted to blow it off. It failed as the man just clutched his coat tighter. The man grew resentful at the wind for its force. The sun shown hot and the man removed his coat on his own. That man believed he removed his coat of his own free will. The sun was cool with that because... well, he is the sun.
Because of my long corporate career in leadership positions, I see clearly this need for balance that always sides with enabling and encouraging free will without force (including without direct advice). Within the philosophy of nudge and the ideology of libertarian paternalism, I think, there is this near perfect prescription for providing that balance.
Some people need help or they will materially and quantifiably harm themselves and others. They might require some force, but it should be designed as temporary with the delivered expectation that they will reform of their own free will to a place where they are not at risk of material harm to themselves and others.
Everyone else should be left to their own pursuits. It is none of our business what they do. Again, unless their behavior becomes prone to cause MATERIAL and QUANTIFYABLE harm.
But this is a slippery slope in the wrong hands. Consider the global pandemic where so many decided that it was justified to use authoritarian force to prevent people from getting infected and spreading the virus. The problem is that force was used when there were not enough material and quantifiable risks of harm. The postmortem analysis is that we accepted WAY TOO MUCH force against us for nebulous and, significantly disingenuous, justification.
Frankly, the pull to insert oneself into the business of others is a mothering thing. Mothers do that with children. Children do that with other children. It is a somewhat infantile behavior where real adults that are more father-oriented would say "his life, his choices, his outcomes... he is really not hurting anyone else, and he is getting by... I hope he learns how to do better." and leave it at that.
I've been doing this my entire life. Does that make me a callous bastard? Maybe, but I don't care what they say, if it's not my business, I'm staying the hell out. When a tree toppled over in a wind storm last month, did I walk over to a stranger's yard and ask if he needed help? Yes, I did. I had a chainsaw and the morning free so I helped a neighbor I'd never met. (We got a box of cookies from his wife in my mailbox next week.} However, I would say that's what makes me so pissed at Demoncats who are always in everybody's business, esp the white women "Karens" out there. That B.S. "silence is violence" mantra of theirs makes me want to pick up a ballbat and demonstrate that you can't open your big fat mouth after its been wired shut. Yeah, you could conclude that this has been a bone of contention of mine for some time. Thanks for posting this essay, John.
Hopefully, nobody interpreted all this as, "Don't help people" -- and offering to help out when someone has a tree come down in their yard makes you a good neighbor.
Yeah, that was not my intent, either. Decent folks who geniunely need help, yup, I'm good on that. But I live near Madison, WI, which is the current "ground -zero" for the latest George Floyd hoax. Every night- on all four networks- I see all these people- who apparently don't have jobs- demonstrating after yet another career criminal, armed with a knife, got shot while fighting with 3 cops. Would I join this crew, and help any of them out, under any circumstances? I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.
The administrator that I had the most respect for was constantly saying, "Stay in your lane". The majority of drama in high school relates to students getting involved in things that are none of their business and for which they have little understanding of what is happening. Cell phones and social media has compounded this problem exponentially.
Many years ago, I had an out of control student. She was a very large black girl who had just turned 18. She would go off on anyone that she thought might have dissed her. She had started several fights in my room with other students who wanted nothing to do with her. Every time, her Assistant Principal would refuse to suspend her because she convinced him she was provoked by a racist remark.
On what I later learned was her last day, she went off on a profanity laced tirade directed at me. When she became combative, I did what I found to be effective to protect myself and my students from being assaulted, I got her attention on me, then I backed up to the door and opened it. I backed out the door and she followed me. I then quickly maneuvered into the room and shut the door, which was always locked. She went ballistic, screaming profanities and pounding on the door. I did not bother to call the office, nothing would be done.
She did leave. After school, when I was helping a few students, she and 20 of her best friends came into the room and started trashing the room and throwing objects at me and the other students. They surrounded me and attempted to restrain me so she could kick my ass. I had been training in Chinese Martial Arts for several years so I responded like I had been trained. Within a few minutes, most of her friends decided they had somewhere else more important to be and left. They were not prepared to suffer physical injuries and pain.
A student of mine entered the room as things were winding down. He saw me dealing with the last few thugs, who were all black. He decided to intervene, by trying to restrain me holding my arms behind my back. The rest of the thugs left and I did not assault the kid holding me because there was no longer a threat against me. He let me go. I called the office to report what had happened. Administrators and the SRO were already on their way because someone had reported a teacher going off on students.
In short, the SRO was able to arrest the girl because she was at the front of the school trying to recruit more friends to finish the job. It turns out her mother had been arrested by the Feds for tax and welfare fraud. He daughter was involved but they had cut a deal, if she testifies, she would not be charged. That deal went out the window and she was charged and convicted and got a long sentence in club Fed.
What surprised the student who had restrained me, he was arrested for assaulting a school official and expelled. He had a clean record up to that point.
He was Asian and he and his parents were greatly surprised. He stepped in because he was sure he was saving black students from a racially motived assault. He was sure I would be arrested and lose my job. The argument was he thought he was doing the right thing and did not have the full story.
The administrator that I admire was now the CWA administrator. He oversaw expulsion hearings. At this kid's hearing, the administrator said, you should have stayed in your own lane because you had no idea what was going on in this dangerous situation. He could have easily made the situation worse and suffered physical harm himself. When asked by the parents what their son should have done, he said, report this to a school staff person and be a good witness.
I did feel for the kid because this incident prevented him from being accepted to college. It really messed up the rest of his life. They will not take a chance on a student with a record of assaulting a public official at their campus.
The clip you posted of Steven Segal also made the point. The bad guy took an innocent bystander hostage with a knife to her throat. Steven's response was, go ahead and kill her, she means nothing to me. The bad guy was trying to make his problem her problem. Steven did not play into it. He basically said, she is your problem, I have nothing against her nor am I obligated to protect her life. That is on you.
In a concealed carry class I took, the instructor, a retired FBI agent presented a scenario. You come home to find a bad guy assaulting your wife. You pull your gun to stop it, and he grabs her and puts the gun to her head and tells you to drop your gun or he will shoot her in the head.
Many people said they would drop their weapon because they could not stand to be responsible for the death of their spouse.
I said I would keep my gun pointed at his head and tell him, no. If you shoot her, that is on you, and I will still shoot you. I would maintain that position and not change my mind no matter how often he made that demand.
When asked to explain why, it was simple. I drop my weapon and then he shoots her than me. There is nothing to prevent him from shooting. If he shoots her, I still will shoot him and likely empty my mag into his body. I would be devastated but he was responsible for her death and nothing I could have done would have prevented it.
If he does not shoot her, if this stand off goes on long enough, law enforcement will arrive. Of course then I will be treated as a potential bad guy, but so will the other person. I will follow their instructions.
The other possible outcome is the bad guy pushes my wife towards me and attempts to escape. Then I have to decide if he still is a threat to me and my wife to determine if I would shoot.
The instructor said that was the right response. Law enforcement is trained to not give up their weapon because that is a death sentence for them. If you do, there will likely be two people murdered by the bad guy.
Not to put a fictious point to this, but how good of a shot are you? Do you practice a lot, like hundreds of rounds a month? Can you put a bullet in the bad guy's head, and not your wife's? I have several friends who shoot competitively with race guns, three guns, and love to play shooting house and "Hogan's Alley" with pop ups. I'm pretty sure some of them would have the confidence to pick option 3- take the shot and drop the SoB. Personally, I don't practice near enough to have that level of skill, competence and confidence, but it would cross my mind...
First off, I do put in about 30 hours a week and I go through a few thousand rounds a month.
No, most law enforcement are not very proficient. Most shoot enough for their yearly or twice a year qualifications.
Handguns, I would not take a head shot. I have two rifles that I would take a head shot all day every day. One I have owned for 52 years and I have always been able to hit what I aim for with it. Today though, I have to use a recoil pad and a shoulder pad because my shoulders just do not take the punishment that it could absorb years ago without complaint. My mother always said, getting old is not for sissies.
Back to my scenario, I likely would not take a head shot unless I knew that was my only alternative and the SOB is going to shoot. What I would do is move around and not be stationary myself. Now the SOB has to follow me, follow his hostage and look around for law enforcement or someone else to arrive and even surprise him from behind.
The SOB wants to get out of their ASAP. Time is not his friend. I am going to do my best to save both of us and prevent innocents from being shot. I have all the time in the world. It is very likely this will get noticed by others and someone will call law enforcement. I. am also engaging him in conversation and will try to convince him to just turn around and leave. If I shot the SOB in the back, I will likely be facing criminal charges (unless of course he is threating or causing great bodily harm to someone and I am behind him and can shoot to stop the threat).
From my perspective, I really do not want to pull the trigger, I own every bullet that I fire. If I hit an innocent, that is on me.
Unless you have been in a situation where you have used deadly force, you will not know how you would actually react. Unfortunately, I have been in violent situations twice in my life and pulled the trigger to protect myself and my siblings. I lived in a violent situation for the first 12 years of my life. Then, my mother was a single mother of 5 and so we lived in the not so nice part of town. Way back in the 60s and 70s, many boys were raised with firearms and learned how to use them.
Under extreme stress, my emotions shut down and I am hyperfocused on the situation. I also do not fight fair. Both times I was able to make split second decisions that saved me and my siblings. I am confident that I have a fighting chance if I ever face a similar situation again. I hope not to do so, I do not want to roll those dice because it still can go south fast.
Thanks, Jerry. It's good to get a reaction from a guy who's been there, instead of guessing what I or my friends might do. Certainly seems smart to do what you'd do, instead of taking that risky shot. Glad to hear that it worked out for you and your family when you did have to shoot. Sounds like you've got the true "gunfighter" mentality, and I mean that in the positive sense. None of that "Uvalde, TX" crap. I also know that the head is the most mobile part and hardest to hit; just ask the punk who shot Trump but failed to assassinate him. Oops, he's in no condition to answer after that .50 cal(?) counter-fire hit, is he!
Many moons ago, P.J. O'Rourke said that the two principles he thought one should live one's life by--and by extension, the government should also live by--were:
Another good one. Yet, that’s the problem with us humans: most of us DO mind our own business most of the time. We DO want to live & let live. Yet, this attitude tends to make us complacent, tends to make us let our guard down. And then, when when evil ones begin to invade our turf, we often do not react until it’s too late. This is what is happening on a national scale with the turf we call our nation. So, don’t overlook the second half of Segal’s statement:
“IF TROUBLE FINDS YOU, YOU GO AFTER IT, AND YOU BITE ITS HEAD OFF BEFORE IT DOES THE SAME THING TO YOU.”
So true! Sometimes our first instinct is to jump in and help. Then we learn the hard truth that some people don't want help and you open yourself up to vulnerabilities. Being a good Samaritan requires us to discern the situation and pray that our decision is the correct choice. Thanks for interesting topics, John.
Early in my adult working life, when I was an assisstant manager at Burger King, I heard one of the employees say her boyfriend was beating her up. My first thought was, "This is one of our employees. We've got to do something." I talked to the manager there and he was like, "Nope, not our problem" and I reluctantly gave up the idea.
Of course now, it's like, "Yeah, what were you going to do? Tell her to have her boyfriend come in and have a talk with him? Beat him up? Then what? Like -- this is happening and she's CHOOSING to stay with him. You going to invite her to stay in your guest room if she'll dump him? Pay for a counselor? Like, how far as you going to go to fix a problem you shouldn't be involved in to begin with?"
Bingo. I like the old semi-humorous line- "Can I help you? Without, you know, getting personally involved..." You might step into the river and discover a nasty undertow that sweeps you away...
The parable of the sun and wind is a great lesson. Competing to get the man to remove his coat, the wind attempted to blow it off. It failed as the man just clutched his coat tighter. The man grew resentful at the wind for its force. The sun shown hot and the man removed his coat on his own. That man believed he removed his coat of his own free will. The sun was cool with that because... well, he is the sun.
Because of my long corporate career in leadership positions, I see clearly this need for balance that always sides with enabling and encouraging free will without force (including without direct advice). Within the philosophy of nudge and the ideology of libertarian paternalism, I think, there is this near perfect prescription for providing that balance.
Some people need help or they will materially and quantifiably harm themselves and others. They might require some force, but it should be designed as temporary with the delivered expectation that they will reform of their own free will to a place where they are not at risk of material harm to themselves and others.
Everyone else should be left to their own pursuits. It is none of our business what they do. Again, unless their behavior becomes prone to cause MATERIAL and QUANTIFYABLE harm.
But this is a slippery slope in the wrong hands. Consider the global pandemic where so many decided that it was justified to use authoritarian force to prevent people from getting infected and spreading the virus. The problem is that force was used when there were not enough material and quantifiable risks of harm. The postmortem analysis is that we accepted WAY TOO MUCH force against us for nebulous and, significantly disingenuous, justification.
Frankly, the pull to insert oneself into the business of others is a mothering thing. Mothers do that with children. Children do that with other children. It is a somewhat infantile behavior where real adults that are more father-oriented would say "his life, his choices, his outcomes... he is really not hurting anyone else, and he is getting by... I hope he learns how to do better." and leave it at that.
I've been doing this my entire life. Does that make me a callous bastard? Maybe, but I don't care what they say, if it's not my business, I'm staying the hell out. When a tree toppled over in a wind storm last month, did I walk over to a stranger's yard and ask if he needed help? Yes, I did. I had a chainsaw and the morning free so I helped a neighbor I'd never met. (We got a box of cookies from his wife in my mailbox next week.} However, I would say that's what makes me so pissed at Demoncats who are always in everybody's business, esp the white women "Karens" out there. That B.S. "silence is violence" mantra of theirs makes me want to pick up a ballbat and demonstrate that you can't open your big fat mouth after its been wired shut. Yeah, you could conclude that this has been a bone of contention of mine for some time. Thanks for posting this essay, John.
Hopefully, nobody interpreted all this as, "Don't help people" -- and offering to help out when someone has a tree come down in their yard makes you a good neighbor.
Yeah, that was not my intent, either. Decent folks who geniunely need help, yup, I'm good on that. But I live near Madison, WI, which is the current "ground -zero" for the latest George Floyd hoax. Every night- on all four networks- I see all these people- who apparently don't have jobs- demonstrating after yet another career criminal, armed with a knife, got shot while fighting with 3 cops. Would I join this crew, and help any of them out, under any circumstances? I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.
The administrator that I had the most respect for was constantly saying, "Stay in your lane". The majority of drama in high school relates to students getting involved in things that are none of their business and for which they have little understanding of what is happening. Cell phones and social media has compounded this problem exponentially.
Many years ago, I had an out of control student. She was a very large black girl who had just turned 18. She would go off on anyone that she thought might have dissed her. She had started several fights in my room with other students who wanted nothing to do with her. Every time, her Assistant Principal would refuse to suspend her because she convinced him she was provoked by a racist remark.
On what I later learned was her last day, she went off on a profanity laced tirade directed at me. When she became combative, I did what I found to be effective to protect myself and my students from being assaulted, I got her attention on me, then I backed up to the door and opened it. I backed out the door and she followed me. I then quickly maneuvered into the room and shut the door, which was always locked. She went ballistic, screaming profanities and pounding on the door. I did not bother to call the office, nothing would be done.
She did leave. After school, when I was helping a few students, she and 20 of her best friends came into the room and started trashing the room and throwing objects at me and the other students. They surrounded me and attempted to restrain me so she could kick my ass. I had been training in Chinese Martial Arts for several years so I responded like I had been trained. Within a few minutes, most of her friends decided they had somewhere else more important to be and left. They were not prepared to suffer physical injuries and pain.
A student of mine entered the room as things were winding down. He saw me dealing with the last few thugs, who were all black. He decided to intervene, by trying to restrain me holding my arms behind my back. The rest of the thugs left and I did not assault the kid holding me because there was no longer a threat against me. He let me go. I called the office to report what had happened. Administrators and the SRO were already on their way because someone had reported a teacher going off on students.
In short, the SRO was able to arrest the girl because she was at the front of the school trying to recruit more friends to finish the job. It turns out her mother had been arrested by the Feds for tax and welfare fraud. He daughter was involved but they had cut a deal, if she testifies, she would not be charged. That deal went out the window and she was charged and convicted and got a long sentence in club Fed.
What surprised the student who had restrained me, he was arrested for assaulting a school official and expelled. He had a clean record up to that point.
He was Asian and he and his parents were greatly surprised. He stepped in because he was sure he was saving black students from a racially motived assault. He was sure I would be arrested and lose my job. The argument was he thought he was doing the right thing and did not have the full story.
The administrator that I admire was now the CWA administrator. He oversaw expulsion hearings. At this kid's hearing, the administrator said, you should have stayed in your own lane because you had no idea what was going on in this dangerous situation. He could have easily made the situation worse and suffered physical harm himself. When asked by the parents what their son should have done, he said, report this to a school staff person and be a good witness.
I did feel for the kid because this incident prevented him from being accepted to college. It really messed up the rest of his life. They will not take a chance on a student with a record of assaulting a public official at their campus.
The clip you posted of Steven Segal also made the point. The bad guy took an innocent bystander hostage with a knife to her throat. Steven's response was, go ahead and kill her, she means nothing to me. The bad guy was trying to make his problem her problem. Steven did not play into it. He basically said, she is your problem, I have nothing against her nor am I obligated to protect her life. That is on you.
In a concealed carry class I took, the instructor, a retired FBI agent presented a scenario. You come home to find a bad guy assaulting your wife. You pull your gun to stop it, and he grabs her and puts the gun to her head and tells you to drop your gun or he will shoot her in the head.
Many people said they would drop their weapon because they could not stand to be responsible for the death of their spouse.
I said I would keep my gun pointed at his head and tell him, no. If you shoot her, that is on you, and I will still shoot you. I would maintain that position and not change my mind no matter how often he made that demand.
When asked to explain why, it was simple. I drop my weapon and then he shoots her than me. There is nothing to prevent him from shooting. If he shoots her, I still will shoot him and likely empty my mag into his body. I would be devastated but he was responsible for her death and nothing I could have done would have prevented it.
If he does not shoot her, if this stand off goes on long enough, law enforcement will arrive. Of course then I will be treated as a potential bad guy, but so will the other person. I will follow their instructions.
The other possible outcome is the bad guy pushes my wife towards me and attempts to escape. Then I have to decide if he still is a threat to me and my wife to determine if I would shoot.
The instructor said that was the right response. Law enforcement is trained to not give up their weapon because that is a death sentence for them. If you do, there will likely be two people murdered by the bad guy.
Not to put a fictious point to this, but how good of a shot are you? Do you practice a lot, like hundreds of rounds a month? Can you put a bullet in the bad guy's head, and not your wife's? I have several friends who shoot competitively with race guns, three guns, and love to play shooting house and "Hogan's Alley" with pop ups. I'm pretty sure some of them would have the confidence to pick option 3- take the shot and drop the SoB. Personally, I don't practice near enough to have that level of skill, competence and confidence, but it would cross my mind...
First off, I do put in about 30 hours a week and I go through a few thousand rounds a month.
No, most law enforcement are not very proficient. Most shoot enough for their yearly or twice a year qualifications.
Handguns, I would not take a head shot. I have two rifles that I would take a head shot all day every day. One I have owned for 52 years and I have always been able to hit what I aim for with it. Today though, I have to use a recoil pad and a shoulder pad because my shoulders just do not take the punishment that it could absorb years ago without complaint. My mother always said, getting old is not for sissies.
Back to my scenario, I likely would not take a head shot unless I knew that was my only alternative and the SOB is going to shoot. What I would do is move around and not be stationary myself. Now the SOB has to follow me, follow his hostage and look around for law enforcement or someone else to arrive and even surprise him from behind.
The SOB wants to get out of their ASAP. Time is not his friend. I am going to do my best to save both of us and prevent innocents from being shot. I have all the time in the world. It is very likely this will get noticed by others and someone will call law enforcement. I. am also engaging him in conversation and will try to convince him to just turn around and leave. If I shot the SOB in the back, I will likely be facing criminal charges (unless of course he is threating or causing great bodily harm to someone and I am behind him and can shoot to stop the threat).
From my perspective, I really do not want to pull the trigger, I own every bullet that I fire. If I hit an innocent, that is on me.
Unless you have been in a situation where you have used deadly force, you will not know how you would actually react. Unfortunately, I have been in violent situations twice in my life and pulled the trigger to protect myself and my siblings. I lived in a violent situation for the first 12 years of my life. Then, my mother was a single mother of 5 and so we lived in the not so nice part of town. Way back in the 60s and 70s, many boys were raised with firearms and learned how to use them.
Under extreme stress, my emotions shut down and I am hyperfocused on the situation. I also do not fight fair. Both times I was able to make split second decisions that saved me and my siblings. I am confident that I have a fighting chance if I ever face a similar situation again. I hope not to do so, I do not want to roll those dice because it still can go south fast.
Thanks, Jerry. It's good to get a reaction from a guy who's been there, instead of guessing what I or my friends might do. Certainly seems smart to do what you'd do, instead of taking that risky shot. Glad to hear that it worked out for you and your family when you did have to shoot. Sounds like you've got the true "gunfighter" mentality, and I mean that in the positive sense. None of that "Uvalde, TX" crap. I also know that the head is the most mobile part and hardest to hit; just ask the punk who shot Trump but failed to assassinate him. Oops, he's in no condition to answer after that .50 cal(?) counter-fire hit, is he!
Many moons ago, P.J. O'Rourke said that the two principles he thought one should live one's life by--and by extension, the government should also live by--were:
1. "Mind your own business."
2. "Keep your hands to yourself."
Verb. Sap. :-)
Another good one. Yet, that’s the problem with us humans: most of us DO mind our own business most of the time. We DO want to live & let live. Yet, this attitude tends to make us complacent, tends to make us let our guard down. And then, when when evil ones begin to invade our turf, we often do not react until it’s too late. This is what is happening on a national scale with the turf we call our nation. So, don’t overlook the second half of Segal’s statement:
“IF TROUBLE FINDS YOU, YOU GO AFTER IT, AND YOU BITE ITS HEAD OFF BEFORE IT DOES THE SAME THING TO YOU.”
So true! Sometimes our first instinct is to jump in and help. Then we learn the hard truth that some people don't want help and you open yourself up to vulnerabilities. Being a good Samaritan requires us to discern the situation and pray that our decision is the correct choice. Thanks for interesting topics, John.
Great advice…convicted. 😊 Sometimes we learn the basics later in life. Great article.
Early in my adult working life, when I was an assisstant manager at Burger King, I heard one of the employees say her boyfriend was beating her up. My first thought was, "This is one of our employees. We've got to do something." I talked to the manager there and he was like, "Nope, not our problem" and I reluctantly gave up the idea.
Of course now, it's like, "Yeah, what were you going to do? Tell her to have her boyfriend come in and have a talk with him? Beat him up? Then what? Like -- this is happening and she's CHOOSING to stay with him. You going to invite her to stay in your guest room if she'll dump him? Pay for a counselor? Like, how far as you going to go to fix a problem you shouldn't be involved in to begin with?"
Bingo. I like the old semi-humorous line- "Can I help you? Without, you know, getting personally involved..." You might step into the river and discover a nasty undertow that sweeps you away...