This is a great article. A lot of people today just want to blame society or "systematic racism" for their short comings, thinking that gives them an excuse not to commit to anything in life or to change a system that has worked for decades. It's up to you to determine how far you go in life to be happy, successful, rich, etc. No one else can do it but you to find help, knowledge, whatever you need to get to where you want to be.
I didn't add Mental Health Issues/Alcoholism/ or Drug addiction to the list because there are people who can have those issues and remain functional. Only when causes them to veer into dysfunctionality (They can't hold a job, they end up in jail over it, they're spending more than they can float on cocaine, etc) does it end up making them poor.
Those are manageable. I have ADHD and I am a Network Administrator for a major computer company. I improved my work ethic, got a sense of humor, and became more sociable.
I was in a conversation on another forum where I said that in America, most people who are poor are poor because they make bad decisions. Like some of the things listed here -- bad budgeting, not finishing school, etc. I was immediately met with a storm of "rebuttals" that said I was insulting the poor, blaming the victim, and so on. They insisted that people are poor because of circumstances beyond their control and there's absolutely nothing they can do about it. I replied that this is why many people are poor and remain poor. Because instead of fixing the things that they are doing wrong, they blame "society" and give up in despair.
That's the new line. Wealth or poverty, success or failure, it's all a roll of the dice. That's not even remotely true, but if it were true, it would be a great excuse to do nothing to fix your life and push for socialism. That tells you all you need to know about who pushes it and why.
I think the truth night be that it's some of both, Jay -- and people will tend to emphasize the part that's most satisfying to them in their circumstance.
Obviously the lucky prefer to think they did it all themselves -- and those who work hard but fail will tend to say they were unlucky rather than incompetent.
John, our Champion Dogmatist here, has the Truth of course: anything bad was caused by the socialists.
RE #3: The problem is that, yes, people warn you, but many people, especially young people, ignore the warnings. I once tried to talk a teenager out of quitting high school. I warned her that without a diploma, she'd be unable to get a good job. She replied that lots of her friends had dropped out of school and now had jobs at McDonalds, and they now had big houses and fancy cars. I told her I found this ... unlikely. (Maybe she had one friend with a minimum wage job living high because his parents were supporting him or some such.)
I've had so many of these conversations where I say, "If you do X then Y will happen", and the other person says, "What? No! That's crazy! Why would Y happen just because I do X? You just don't want me to have any fun." Then they do X and Y happens, and they say, "Wow, whoever could have predicted this?"
RE #1: My wife (now my ex-wife) used to complain that the cars I was able to afford to buy us when we were in our early 20s weren't good enough. At one point she said, "My father was always able to provide our family with a good reliable car!" Fed up I replied, "So because when your father was in his 40s he was able to afford one good reliable car, therefore when I'm in my 20s I should be able to afford two?" (Now that I think about it, that actually shut her up. That may be one of the few times I actually won an argument.)
A very shallow analysis that includes no consideration of how US society is structured and stratified. Lifting oneself by one’s own bootstraps is useless advice. One can use the bootstrap to get the boot on the foot. After that, the bootstrap has no further functionality. Success in our American society involves far more than individual efforts. The cooperation of others, the ability to navigate institutional processes, and understanding power relationships and their management are among the factors of success.
Something else to consider: Be mindful of the difference between true poverty, and a poor but simple life based upon self reliance and making do. Usually the latter is associated with smaller, more rural communities, but I have seen it (rarely) in city environments. People who are poor, but self reliant are an often unnoticed demographic. My grandparents would be considered poor nowadays, but they taught their kids and grandkids hard work, honest living and ingenuity. Grandpa could fix just about anything, was a top notch gardener, and made just about the best hotcakes in the world.
This is what we should be teaching minority children. Not how to protest and get student loans. Until schools stop teaching climate change, CRT and "you can pick your gender". And start teaching how to access the freedoms and opportunities this country provides it won't change the victim mentality.
I went to school for engineering. Went to a satellite campus then transferred to main after 2 years. Used my Army College Fund and summer jobs to pay for 3/4 of my tuition. Found an entry level job in NOVA to get my foot in the door. Got married and my wife paid off the remainder of my tuition (she was better at money than I was). Started having children, Hated living in NOVA and found a new job after 3 years to live in a slower paced world making the same money. Throughout the years, I've been on many hiring panels. Not once did "Where they went to college" matter in finding the right person for the job.
I'm an Engineer. Going $160K in debt for an Engineering Degree is dumb. Most will tell you that they just had to go to the Top Engineering School to get the "best" education, to find the right job or internship.
#1 Going to into debt for a masters is silly as alot of larger firms that hires Engineers will pay 100% for an advanced degree and there isn't much of difference in pay between with a Master Vs Bachelors for entry-level.
#2 I went to Community College then transfered to my local state school. Alot of my classmates ended up working for the biggest and most prestigious Engineering firms you can think of. And they have people who went into 6-figures worth of debt for brand-name degrees working for them.
My BSME hubby worked hard in HS got scholarships and paid for a decent state school to be an engineer while working part time. Did it in five because of great co-op. opportunity. Retiring soon at 55 debt free. Just affirming you can do it without school debt.
This is a great article. A lot of people today just want to blame society or "systematic racism" for their short comings, thinking that gives them an excuse not to commit to anything in life or to change a system that has worked for decades. It's up to you to determine how far you go in life to be happy, successful, rich, etc. No one else can do it but you to find help, knowledge, whatever you need to get to where you want to be.
I agree 110%
Missing from this list is "Mental Health Issues". I contend it should be #1 reason
I didn't add Mental Health Issues/Alcoholism/ or Drug addiction to the list because there are people who can have those issues and remain functional. Only when causes them to veer into dysfunctionality (They can't hold a job, they end up in jail over it, they're spending more than they can float on cocaine, etc) does it end up making them poor.
Those are manageable. I have ADHD and I am a Network Administrator for a major computer company. I improved my work ethic, got a sense of humor, and became more sociable.
Super wisdom for the super-busy. Thank you
I was in a conversation on another forum where I said that in America, most people who are poor are poor because they make bad decisions. Like some of the things listed here -- bad budgeting, not finishing school, etc. I was immediately met with a storm of "rebuttals" that said I was insulting the poor, blaming the victim, and so on. They insisted that people are poor because of circumstances beyond their control and there's absolutely nothing they can do about it. I replied that this is why many people are poor and remain poor. Because instead of fixing the things that they are doing wrong, they blame "society" and give up in despair.
That's the new line. Wealth or poverty, success or failure, it's all a roll of the dice. That's not even remotely true, but if it were true, it would be a great excuse to do nothing to fix your life and push for socialism. That tells you all you need to know about who pushes it and why.
Suddenly reminds me of a quote I saw somewhere: "Success in life is mostly a matter of luck. Just ask anyone who's a failure."
I think the truth night be that it's some of both, Jay -- and people will tend to emphasize the part that's most satisfying to them in their circumstance.
Obviously the lucky prefer to think they did it all themselves -- and those who work hard but fail will tend to say they were unlucky rather than incompetent.
John, our Champion Dogmatist here, has the Truth of course: anything bad was caused by the socialists.
Yep, we keep hearing those excuses from certain segments of society, where everybody else except themselves are to blame for their problems.
RE #3: The problem is that, yes, people warn you, but many people, especially young people, ignore the warnings. I once tried to talk a teenager out of quitting high school. I warned her that without a diploma, she'd be unable to get a good job. She replied that lots of her friends had dropped out of school and now had jobs at McDonalds, and they now had big houses and fancy cars. I told her I found this ... unlikely. (Maybe she had one friend with a minimum wage job living high because his parents were supporting him or some such.)
I've had so many of these conversations where I say, "If you do X then Y will happen", and the other person says, "What? No! That's crazy! Why would Y happen just because I do X? You just don't want me to have any fun." Then they do X and Y happens, and they say, "Wow, whoever could have predicted this?"
RE #1: My wife (now my ex-wife) used to complain that the cars I was able to afford to buy us when we were in our early 20s weren't good enough. At one point she said, "My father was always able to provide our family with a good reliable car!" Fed up I replied, "So because when your father was in his 40s he was able to afford one good reliable car, therefore when I'm in my 20s I should be able to afford two?" (Now that I think about it, that actually shut her up. That may be one of the few times I actually won an argument.)
What a wonderful example of two people cooperating to end a marriage! Jay, you're hilarious!
A very shallow analysis that includes no consideration of how US society is structured and stratified. Lifting oneself by one’s own bootstraps is useless advice. One can use the bootstrap to get the boot on the foot. After that, the bootstrap has no further functionality. Success in our American society involves far more than individual efforts. The cooperation of others, the ability to navigate institutional processes, and understanding power relationships and their management are among the factors of success.
Excellent article that all millennials and “entitled” people should have to read, maybe more than once.
Something else to consider: Be mindful of the difference between true poverty, and a poor but simple life based upon self reliance and making do. Usually the latter is associated with smaller, more rural communities, but I have seen it (rarely) in city environments. People who are poor, but self reliant are an often unnoticed demographic. My grandparents would be considered poor nowadays, but they taught their kids and grandkids hard work, honest living and ingenuity. Grandpa could fix just about anything, was a top notch gardener, and made just about the best hotcakes in the world.
Well said, Pete!
This is what we should be teaching minority children. Not how to protest and get student loans. Until schools stop teaching climate change, CRT and "you can pick your gender". And start teaching how to access the freedoms and opportunities this country provides it won't change the victim mentality.
Teach all the children this and some of their parents!
Sooo true!! Or stop the current downward spiral of our society.
I went to school for engineering. Went to a satellite campus then transferred to main after 2 years. Used my Army College Fund and summer jobs to pay for 3/4 of my tuition. Found an entry level job in NOVA to get my foot in the door. Got married and my wife paid off the remainder of my tuition (she was better at money than I was). Started having children, Hated living in NOVA and found a new job after 3 years to live in a slower paced world making the same money. Throughout the years, I've been on many hiring panels. Not once did "Where they went to college" matter in finding the right person for the job.
$160,000 in debt is not the way to do it!
I'm an Engineer. Going $160K in debt for an Engineering Degree is dumb. Most will tell you that they just had to go to the Top Engineering School to get the "best" education, to find the right job or internship.
#1 Going to into debt for a masters is silly as alot of larger firms that hires Engineers will pay 100% for an advanced degree and there isn't much of difference in pay between with a Master Vs Bachelors for entry-level.
#2 I went to Community College then transfered to my local state school. Alot of my classmates ended up working for the biggest and most prestigious Engineering firms you can think of. And they have people who went into 6-figures worth of debt for brand-name degrees working for them.
My BSME hubby worked hard in HS got scholarships and paid for a decent state school to be an engineer while working part time. Did it in five because of great co-op. opportunity. Retiring soon at 55 debt free. Just affirming you can do it without school debt.