Not only should he not stay with her, but he should also have never hooked up with her.
When you dig deep into the choice of human sexuality, it is really only the dysfunctional and flawed people that cannot accept a life of fidelity with a life-long partner. It is the insecure... the people that NEED external validation and attention instead of being happy with their own self.
I have been married for 43 years to the same woman. I have never been unfaithful. I have never had the interest to be unfaithful. That does not mean that my natural sexual attraction engine has not lusted after other women, but I understand that superficial biological function and don't mistake it for any real need. I don't need anything from someone else to make myself happy or psychologically whole. I think this is the difference. People that are not whole are constantly looking for the gap-filling drug of some type that is destructive to them and the people around them.
I say run away from those people until and unless they fix their shit.
Why are his friends and family pushing him to do something he does not want. If his g/f wants an open relationship and he does not, that is his choice to make.
How many women want a divorce because he does not meet her needs any longer? Her husband has been working to support her and the kids and she complains he is gone all the time. What she really wants is sex and someone to shower her with affection all the time. She wants excitement in her life. She also wants him to do what it takes to earn the money that pays for her lifestyle. So she divorces, marries the next guy that sweeps her off her feet and a few year later she is back to the boring lifestyle because husband #2 is working all the time.
This guy's g/f just wanted the attention and affection he lavished on her. Once he could not do it 24/7, she found someone who would fill in. She does not want to lose what she had but she also wants more than he can give her now.
I am sure she feels guilty about sleeping around behind his back and was hoping that he would go for an open relationship so she does not feel guilty. Now she can blame him because he is a prude and wants to control her and her choices. She is using emotional blackmail to get what she wants while making him out to be the bad guy.
He needs to put on his big boy pants (as my mother would say) and let his parents know that he will not discuss is personal life with them. If they insist on calling him to encourage him to get back, he needs to say this is not open for discussion. I will end the conversation her. We look forward to supporting them in raising their children (they want more). We are good with just being grandparents and letting them make the decisions about their children.
I am estranged from a couple of other family members because I refused to give them money to support their bad financial choices. I caught flak for that but did not back down. My wife and I lived through some lean times because we prioritized raising our son. There was lots of hot dogs and Mac and Cheese but we enjoyed life. Camping is very cheap and we did lots of that and made great memories. Our son told us he enjoyed his childhood and hopes to provide the same for his children.
If this person gives in, he will lose control of his life. If he agrees to this, she will eventually drop him completely because she will find another weekend lover that spends lots of time, money, and attention on her.
I suggest that he not come home on weekends for a very long time. Focus on school. While doing that he just might meet a young woman who deserves his attention and energy because she wants similar things that he does and will reciprocate and be faithful.
My wife and I have been married for 42 years now. We had some hard times but we grew because we got through them. We have made a great life for ourselves and would not give it up for anything else. Sexual pleasure is fleeting, real, enduring love is forever.
A Friend will help you move. A True Friend will help you move a body. And your True Love will drive around for an hour keeping the sheriff's department busy while you get your car out of the county impound at three in the morning.
He isn’t mistaken in letting go of this relationship. Far better before marriage, then after, when he’d have so much more to lose. If she isn’t satisfied now, she sure won’t be after a few years of marital life.
All her begging and pleading for him to talk it out is nothing more than “leavers remorse”. She thought he’d go for it, and when he didn’t she saw him as more desirable, which would last a very short time before she would be right back to angling for a better deal.
Not sure if I'd want to talk it out with that kind of person. Staying away, at least for awhile, is self-preservation. If she can't be faithful now, she won't be faithful later on either. Humans are wired to only be with one other person - not 3 or more. Somebody always gets hurt, and hurt badly, in that kind of situation. If she must talk about it have her write a letter.
This is ass cancer causing shit! Life is way too short to be dealing with this on top of the rest of the crap this young man is going through. Dude needs to dump her, change his number and, if necessary his address. He's young. Concentrate on school, and date someone thats at least within his own zip code. It's about time management. I agree with Hawkins. Open relationship is code for she doesn't want to be together anymore. So be. Lots of fish in the sea.
I do think you're absolutely right in the larger principle but I also think once the guy calmed down he should consider letting the girl give him an explanation: not another chance, but an explanation, preferably accompanied by an apology.
To put this in context, I had a very good friend who had some serious "mom issues" and wound up not talking to her any more. I kept gently suggesting that her mom wouldn't live forever--mine didn't, she died when I was 37--and that maybe she should try and reconcile in some way.
I definitely think he should reconcile with his mom =) As to his girlfriend, I don't know what good explanation there is for, "We used to be in relationship, but I didn't see you a lot, so I decided I'm not that committed to it and want to have sex with other guys." For me, that would be the end of our relationship, but if he doesn't feel that way, cool. Ultimately, everyone has to make their own decisions.
I'm not saying the relationship shouldn't end--I think I was fairly clear on that--but I think it's an issue of forgiveness--and perhaps even reconciliation, not in the sense of the relationship being mended but in the sense of letting the anger out of the balloon.
The guy is angry and rightfully so. but if he just keeps hold of his anger it will become toxic. As my pastor once put it, "Staying angry at someone is like eating poison and hoping the other person will die."
Everyone has to make their own decisions but not all decisions we make in the heat of the moment end well. Indeed my personal experience after 67 years of life is that they almost never do.
I certainly don't think he should stay angry forever or hate her guts or anything. But, I do tend to think that getting "closure" is a lot more of a slippery thing than most people think. Does talking to her, hearing some variation of, "You weren't around, I got lonely, and I felt like I was missing out, and I wanted to sleep with other people" followed by some crying make anything better? It wouldn't for me. If it would for him and he needs that to move on, sure.
<patiently> I am not talking about "closure" or any of that kind of psychobabble. I am talking about *reconciliation* in the Christian sense of the term, which ultimately is about getting right with God by getting right *with yourself*.
It's the parable of the wicked steward in action: if your master is willing to forgive an unrepayable debt, shouldn't you at least *consider* doing the same to your own debtors? Or do you think we should never forgive but go on relitigating our disputes in our heads and hearts forever? That way lies sadness, madness, and other undesirable conditions, as I've already pointed out.
You are the one who started this conversation, in a public forum. I gave you some thoughts to consider. If you didn't want to have a dialogue with your loyal readership, why bring it up in the first place?
I'm not deliberately being obtuse or trying to shut down debate, I guess I just look at it from such an entirely different perspective I don't quite understand what you mean.
From my perspective, it's done. He doesn't have to be angry or upset. The relationship is just over. I don't even see the need for him to forgive her unless she needs it, and I'm not sure she does.
Like me? I've been in a number of relationships that didn't work out in my life. I accept that I may have been part of the problem and bear zero ill will against anybody I've ever been out with. We could have conversations together and try to rehash what went wrong, but I honestly don't think that would accomplish anything. Nobody needs to ask my forgiveness and hopefully, nobody feels like I need to be forgiven (although with women, you never know. Lol)
I don't agree with your definition of Christian forgiveness, and I have studied it, too. You should not hold on to bitterness, and you can forgive someone for doing you wrong, but it definitely does not require a person to unilaterally restore the relationship. That must be a two way street with the other person coming to you and making amends. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me still applies, even to Christians. John graciously replies, sometimes, to explain his positions. He doesn't just argue with people or shut down the debate, even when he might disagree with them.
I have stated twice that I am not arguing for a restoration of the relationship.
Now, apparently, I'm doing it for the third time, for your benefit.
If you propose to criticize me, please try to ensure in your future endeavors to criticize me for something I'm actually advocating, not something I've explicitly said I'm *not* advocating.
And Mr. Hawkins and I have already amiably ironed out our differences, so you don't need to defend him, as in any case I'm quite sure he's able to defend himself.
Not only should he not stay with her, but he should also have never hooked up with her.
When you dig deep into the choice of human sexuality, it is really only the dysfunctional and flawed people that cannot accept a life of fidelity with a life-long partner. It is the insecure... the people that NEED external validation and attention instead of being happy with their own self.
I have been married for 43 years to the same woman. I have never been unfaithful. I have never had the interest to be unfaithful. That does not mean that my natural sexual attraction engine has not lusted after other women, but I understand that superficial biological function and don't mistake it for any real need. I don't need anything from someone else to make myself happy or psychologically whole. I think this is the difference. People that are not whole are constantly looking for the gap-filling drug of some type that is destructive to them and the people around them.
I say run away from those people until and unless they fix their shit.
Absolutely! Your wife is a lucky and wise woman to have held onto you.
Why are his friends and family pushing him to do something he does not want. If his g/f wants an open relationship and he does not, that is his choice to make.
How many women want a divorce because he does not meet her needs any longer? Her husband has been working to support her and the kids and she complains he is gone all the time. What she really wants is sex and someone to shower her with affection all the time. She wants excitement in her life. She also wants him to do what it takes to earn the money that pays for her lifestyle. So she divorces, marries the next guy that sweeps her off her feet and a few year later she is back to the boring lifestyle because husband #2 is working all the time.
This guy's g/f just wanted the attention and affection he lavished on her. Once he could not do it 24/7, she found someone who would fill in. She does not want to lose what she had but she also wants more than he can give her now.
I am sure she feels guilty about sleeping around behind his back and was hoping that he would go for an open relationship so she does not feel guilty. Now she can blame him because he is a prude and wants to control her and her choices. She is using emotional blackmail to get what she wants while making him out to be the bad guy.
He needs to put on his big boy pants (as my mother would say) and let his parents know that he will not discuss is personal life with them. If they insist on calling him to encourage him to get back, he needs to say this is not open for discussion. I will end the conversation her. We look forward to supporting them in raising their children (they want more). We are good with just being grandparents and letting them make the decisions about their children.
I am estranged from a couple of other family members because I refused to give them money to support their bad financial choices. I caught flak for that but did not back down. My wife and I lived through some lean times because we prioritized raising our son. There was lots of hot dogs and Mac and Cheese but we enjoyed life. Camping is very cheap and we did lots of that and made great memories. Our son told us he enjoyed his childhood and hopes to provide the same for his children.
If this person gives in, he will lose control of his life. If he agrees to this, she will eventually drop him completely because she will find another weekend lover that spends lots of time, money, and attention on her.
I suggest that he not come home on weekends for a very long time. Focus on school. While doing that he just might meet a young woman who deserves his attention and energy because she wants similar things that he does and will reciprocate and be faithful.
My wife and I have been married for 42 years now. We had some hard times but we grew because we got through them. We have made a great life for ourselves and would not give it up for anything else. Sexual pleasure is fleeting, real, enduring love is forever.
A Friend will help you move. A True Friend will help you move a body. And your True Love will drive around for an hour keeping the sheriff's department busy while you get your car out of the county impound at three in the morning.
How in hell is this even a question?
If she doesn't want YOU exclusively anymore, she's already checked out. Do the same.
He isn’t mistaken in letting go of this relationship. Far better before marriage, then after, when he’d have so much more to lose. If she isn’t satisfied now, she sure won’t be after a few years of marital life.
All her begging and pleading for him to talk it out is nothing more than “leavers remorse”. She thought he’d go for it, and when he didn’t she saw him as more desirable, which would last a very short time before she would be right back to angling for a better deal.
Both sets of parents need to stay out of it.
Not sure if I'd want to talk it out with that kind of person. Staying away, at least for awhile, is self-preservation. If she can't be faithful now, she won't be faithful later on either. Humans are wired to only be with one other person - not 3 or more. Somebody always gets hurt, and hurt badly, in that kind of situation. If she must talk about it have her write a letter.
If there's a doubt, there is no doubt.
This is ass cancer causing shit! Life is way too short to be dealing with this on top of the rest of the crap this young man is going through. Dude needs to dump her, change his number and, if necessary his address. He's young. Concentrate on school, and date someone thats at least within his own zip code. It's about time management. I agree with Hawkins. Open relationship is code for she doesn't want to be together anymore. So be. Lots of fish in the sea.
I do think you're absolutely right in the larger principle but I also think once the guy calmed down he should consider letting the girl give him an explanation: not another chance, but an explanation, preferably accompanied by an apology.
To put this in context, I had a very good friend who had some serious "mom issues" and wound up not talking to her any more. I kept gently suggesting that her mom wouldn't live forever--mine didn't, she died when I was 37--and that maybe she should try and reconcile in some way.
I definitely think he should reconcile with his mom =) As to his girlfriend, I don't know what good explanation there is for, "We used to be in relationship, but I didn't see you a lot, so I decided I'm not that committed to it and want to have sex with other guys." For me, that would be the end of our relationship, but if he doesn't feel that way, cool. Ultimately, everyone has to make their own decisions.
I'm not saying the relationship shouldn't end--I think I was fairly clear on that--but I think it's an issue of forgiveness--and perhaps even reconciliation, not in the sense of the relationship being mended but in the sense of letting the anger out of the balloon.
The guy is angry and rightfully so. but if he just keeps hold of his anger it will become toxic. As my pastor once put it, "Staying angry at someone is like eating poison and hoping the other person will die."
Everyone has to make their own decisions but not all decisions we make in the heat of the moment end well. Indeed my personal experience after 67 years of life is that they almost never do.
YMMV, and evidently does.
I certainly don't think he should stay angry forever or hate her guts or anything. But, I do tend to think that getting "closure" is a lot more of a slippery thing than most people think. Does talking to her, hearing some variation of, "You weren't around, I got lonely, and I felt like I was missing out, and I wanted to sleep with other people" followed by some crying make anything better? It wouldn't for me. If it would for him and he needs that to move on, sure.
<patiently> I am not talking about "closure" or any of that kind of psychobabble. I am talking about *reconciliation* in the Christian sense of the term, which ultimately is about getting right with God by getting right *with yourself*.
It's the parable of the wicked steward in action: if your master is willing to forgive an unrepayable debt, shouldn't you at least *consider* doing the same to your own debtors? Or do you think we should never forgive but go on relitigating our disputes in our heads and hearts forever? That way lies sadness, madness, and other undesirable conditions, as I've already pointed out.
You are the one who started this conversation, in a public forum. I gave you some thoughts to consider. If you didn't want to have a dialogue with your loyal readership, why bring it up in the first place?
I'm not deliberately being obtuse or trying to shut down debate, I guess I just look at it from such an entirely different perspective I don't quite understand what you mean.
From my perspective, it's done. He doesn't have to be angry or upset. The relationship is just over. I don't even see the need for him to forgive her unless she needs it, and I'm not sure she does.
Like me? I've been in a number of relationships that didn't work out in my life. I accept that I may have been part of the problem and bear zero ill will against anybody I've ever been out with. We could have conversations together and try to rehash what went wrong, but I honestly don't think that would accomplish anything. Nobody needs to ask my forgiveness and hopefully, nobody feels like I need to be forgiven (although with women, you never know. Lol)
It would seem that our perceptions of how to handle these situations differ significantly. I guess I'll leave it at that.
Appreciate your willingness to engage, and I certainly beg leave to apologize for any frustration I may have expressed.
I don't agree with your definition of Christian forgiveness, and I have studied it, too. You should not hold on to bitterness, and you can forgive someone for doing you wrong, but it definitely does not require a person to unilaterally restore the relationship. That must be a two way street with the other person coming to you and making amends. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me still applies, even to Christians. John graciously replies, sometimes, to explain his positions. He doesn't just argue with people or shut down the debate, even when he might disagree with them.
I have stated twice that I am not arguing for a restoration of the relationship.
Now, apparently, I'm doing it for the third time, for your benefit.
If you propose to criticize me, please try to ensure in your future endeavors to criticize me for something I'm actually advocating, not something I've explicitly said I'm *not* advocating.
And Mr. Hawkins and I have already amiably ironed out our differences, so you don't need to defend him, as in any case I'm quite sure he's able to defend himself.